SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)ParticipantFebruary 13, 2017 at 8:36 pmPost count: 23
Yesterday I did a 25% water change. I did not check parameters and today I noticed one of my goldfish (I believe he is sensitive to nitrates) in distress. I checked the water parameters and the my nitrites were ammonia are 0 , ph 8. Nitrates were probably 30 (I have a hard time distinguishing between the colors on the liquid test).
I did a 25% water change and then 2-3 hours later, I did another water change.
He is sinking to the bottom and also swimming erratically sometimes just sort of floating around. current parameters nitrites and ammonia 0, ph 8 and nitrates about 5.
Is there anything I can do to help him?
here is a link to a video of him.
SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)ParticipantFebruary 13, 2017 at 9:55 pmPost count: 23
I am going to refrigerate a pitcher of water and add to tank based on another suggestion on post
SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)ParticipantFebruary 14, 2017 at 12:46 amPost count: 23
We gave him castor oil tonight and he is still sitting at the bottom. Current tank water temp is 68 and I have added a small fan at the top of the water to add more oxygen to the water.
Venus (Goldfish Master)KeymasterFebruary 14, 2017 at 5:22 amPost count: 129
The video is a short one, and just shows him sinking. When he lifts from the bottom, does he struggle to do so? When he stops struggling, does he sink?
Has the fish been eating normally?
If not, it’s possible nitrates were bothering him, causing him to lose his appetite. When fish go too long without eating they lose the power to lift. This is because waste in the tract creates gas (Co2) that is utilized by the swim bladder organ. No waste, no gas, no functioning. The organ is connected to the tract. It’s the opposite of the floating issues where the tract is impacted, trapping gas in the bladder. In some cases the bladder literally collapses
When you perform a 25% water change, are you preparing 25%, and then exchanging 5% every half hour? This is preferable for fish with nitrate issues. This method keeps the water table as high as possible, and lowers nitrates gradually. Removing 25% at one time and replacing it, does the opposite, causing injury
Do you see any signs of curling to the side?
Did you eliminate supersaturated gases from the freshwater before the water changes? Exchanging a lot of water in a short time may reduce toxin levels, but it also poses the risk of SSG issues. These gases are found in tap water, and created by pressure. They cause the same symptoms as nitrate poisoning or shock
If the fish is suffering from nitrate shock due to a water change, it should improve within a few days.
Look for tiny bubbles on the sides of the tank; SSG
If the fish isn’t eating, let us know, and we’ll discuss
How old is this fish?
The dorsal fin looks slightly clamped, however, this may be misleading due to the fact the video was short. You say ammonia is zero, but what are KH levels. When too high, carbonate mineral has the same effect as ammonia
Long live our fishVenus (Goldfish Master)KeymasterFebruary 14, 2017 at 6:13 amPost count: 129
Okay, I see your KH posted. It’s on the low side, so let’s buffer it. This parameter gives water the ability to support oxygen. Oxygen and carbonate mineral together make up pH. KH is responsible for alkalinity
Premix one teaspoon of bicarbonate (baking) soda in a quart of tank water. Pour all around slowly mixing with your hand as you do so. Wait for a half hour and test KH. If still low, continue with the process until parameter is 140
Have you salted recently? It might be a good idea to give the fish a salt bath. It’s possible the cycle has experienced a spike. Even though you’re getting zero readings for ammonia and nitrite, this doesn’t mean they weren’t present previously; damage done. Salt improves gill function, which couldn’t hurt either way
Add one tablespoon of salt with one gallon of tank water. Leave the fish in the bath for two to five minutes. Pour the bath in the tank for good measure
Check out our remedies tog remedies I might recommend the green tea remedy to increase blood flow
Long live our fishSammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)ParticipantFebruary 14, 2017 at 4:43 pmPost count: 23
I gave him a castor oil treatment last night and within an hour he was better!
Venus (Goldfish Master)KeymasterFebruary 14, 2017 at 5:22 pmPost count: 129
Did you administer Castor oil before posting or after? In other words, is the fish alright now?
That’s fast acting if so. Castor oil takes some time to get the job done. Was the fish experiencing floating issues previously? Castor oil, as we all know, lubricates the track, helping waste to be eliminated. Floating issues are caused by waste slowing or becoming impacted. When this happens gas (created from waste) becomes trapped in the swim bladder organ (the two being connected) and keeps the fish from being able to sink. A sinking issue is the opposite
I will say, Castor oil is pretty impressive stuff, being made up of 16 amino acids. It’s also used for several other conditions, exterior and interior
Long live our fishSammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)ParticipantFebruary 14, 2017 at 8:08 pmPost count: 23
I didn’t realize you have to change water so slowly with nitrate problem. I did 25% first day when there wasn’t a problem, then I noticed he had a problem the next day and I did 25% change and then two hours later another 25% change.
AT cricket’s suggestion I did the oil last night. She knows the fish has past swim bladder issues. I had also added another pump and put a fan directed at the top of the water. I have another fish and he wasn’t exhibiting any signs of distress.
I always eliminate the ssg’s in a tank for about 30 minutes with a pump, before adding to the tank. I didn’t notice he wasn’t eating until he was sitting at the bottom of the tank. He ate a pea last night, and is eating normally today so he is out of crisis mode.
The fish is 12-13 years old.
Venus (Goldfish Master)KeymasterFebruary 14, 2017 at 9:34 pmPost count: 129
Glad to hear it. Yes, I would say the fish is still nitrate sensitive. There are a few things you can do to help. Keeping the water table as high as possible at all times, gradually reducing levels, and most importantly, keeping KH up to high end of comfort zone. Even though you’re doing everything possible to make sure the water is properly oxygenated, all the movement, all the fresh air in the world won’t help if the KH is low
Buffer to 140 and keep it there. This means buffering and testing, testing and buffering. Your KH levels aren’t dangerously low, but even if fish are healthy, why not give them the best water. Your GH looks fine, but if you want to buffer now and then as a tonic it would be beneficial
Green tea and chlorophyll remedies are beneficial for fish that have experienced nitrate issues. The green juice enriches the bloodstream, and the green tea gets it moving
It’s no easy task, but try keeping nitrates max 20 ppm. If you have algae growth, encourage it. Algae feeds on nitrates. If you remove it, do so very consistently. Removing a lot of algae at one time causes a large spike in nitrates
By the way, I’ve coined the term ‘nitrate shock’ and it’s real. Different from nitrate poisoning; the onset is caused by a sudden and large change in nitrates, and can be just as lethal
It’s an accomplishment to have fish this old. Let’s keep them around for a few more years
Long live our fishSammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)ParticipantFebruary 15, 2017 at 12:40 amPost count: 23
HOw many times should I “oil” the fish?
Venus (Goldfish Master)KeymasterFebruary 15, 2017 at 3:47 amPost count: 129
Only when floating symptoms reoccur
Long live our fishSammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)ParticipantFebruary 16, 2017 at 8:13 pmPost count: 23
He ate and is again sitting at the bottom. The other fish seems to have no problems. I am addressing the KH issue. Should I continue oiling the fish again?
Venus (Goldfish Master)KeymasterFebruary 16, 2017 at 8:19 pmPost count: 129
I wouldn’t administer oil to a fish that isn’t floating. They float because they’re constipated, and the oil eliminates waste from the tract, relieving the condition, eliminating the floating issue
When a fish is on the bottom, it’s been affected by nitrates. If the fish ate, he’s going to recover as long as the nitrates are consistently low, and the water table high. it doesn’t hurt to keep the temps low like you’ve been doing
Yes, raise that KH as soon as possible. That your fish was so easily affected tells me it’s not fully recovered from the previous poisoning. Nitrates rob the blood of oxygen, and water rich in oxygen is the key to recovery. Remember, KH is a part of pH
Long live our fishSammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)ParticipantFebruary 16, 2017 at 8:40 pmPost count: 23
Thanks so much! Should I do a salt bath also ? I didn’t do one yesterday.
Venus (Goldfish Master)KeymasterFebruary 16, 2017 at 9:50 pmPost count: 129
I think it would be beneficial, but we don’t want to lift the fish off the bottom. Reason being; fish poisoned by nitrates need deep water. The pressure (weight) of the water relieves the pressure caused by nitrates. This is why they bottom sit
If you can manage it, here’s a link leading to instructions for what I call ‘the in house bath’ The fish remains in deep water, but receives the benefit of a salt bath while it remains in the tank, in deep water In house bath
Long live our fishSammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)ParticipantFebruary 17, 2017 at 3:16 amPost count: 23
I did the inhouse salt bath.
current water parameters
ammonia and nitrite 0
I have brought the temp down to about 65degrees
Issy every once in a while will torpedo to the top, grab air, go back down and release a bubble.
Here are videos of him at the bottom of the tank.
any other ideas? green tea bath? he isn’t really eating looks like he is interested but it doesn’t look like the food is going in his mouth.
SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)ParticipantFebruary 17, 2017 at 3:59 amPost count: 23
He now looks like he is breathing really hard and he is curling. I put a divider in to separate from the other fish
Venus (Goldfish Master)KeymasterFebruary 17, 2017 at 5:37 amPost count: 129
The curling, caused by pressure, is another symptom of nitrate poisoning
Your parameters look great, all except for pH; it’s still low. Now that you’ve got your KH up, there’s no reason for low pH unless oxygen is an issue. Open a window or door periodically to get fresh air in the house. If you haven’t, set up a fan so that it blows across the surface. The water movement clears the body of water. KH gives the water the ability to support oxygen, and last but not least, the surface must be exposed to fresh air
Being indoors, fresh air is sometimes an issue in the winter with windows shut tight. Not only is there Co2 (gas produced from waste) there’s also Co2 in our homes. Every time we breathe out, we’re filling a room with Co2
Do you have any 3% hydrogen peroxide on hand? If not pick up a bottle at the grocery store. Premix one ounce per 10 gallons of tank water in a quart of tank water; pour in all around slowly mixing with your hand as you do so. H202 is oxygenated water. Perform this treatment three times a day for first day, two times second day, and then once a day for a week or so
If the one fish looks to be in a panic, you might check inside the mouth for a stone. It’s not common, but it happens. There was a fish on our facebook page that got a stone stuck in a nostril. What are the chances?
Long live our fishSammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)ParticipantFebruary 17, 2017 at 11:27 amPost count: 23
Sorry I didn’t measure ph after I raised the KH, it was very late last night. It is 8.3 this morning.
I added hydrogen pyroxide this morning(that is part of my water changing routine every time I do WC).
Before I went to bed, he wasn’t curling but still bottom sitting.
This morning he isn’t curling. I think he ate a pea or two and I believe he pooped as there was green debris floating at top of his side of the tank.
I have to leave and will be back in a few hours.
I have a small fan blowing on top of the water (was blowing on it all last night).
He is still swiming to the top every once in a while grabbing air then going back down.
Venus (Goldfish Master)KeymasterFebruary 17, 2017 at 11:58 amPost count: 129
Good deal. Your water is excellent right now. Keep it up
Goldfish that have been in water low in oxygen may feel deprived long after the water is buffered and oxygenated. This is because they don’t have lungs. They can’t appreciate oxygenated water until their bloodstream becomes oxygenated, which takes time, and with nitrate poisoning, plenty of it
Interesting fact; goldfish that have been in water low in oxygen for a long time period, continue surfacing as a habit. They don’t know why they do it; they just know it’s what they do.
Your water wasn’t seriously low, just low enough for a fish sensitive to nitrates to feel deprived
Your fish is on the mend
H202 begins to degrade as soon as it hits the water, so in times of need, use more often; three to four times daily max. Just don’t make a habit of overuse. Grocery store H202 is low in quality. Besides, we shouldn’t have to depend on it if our water is right, however, your fish needs the extra boost right now
Long live our fish
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