help fish looks like it has nitrate posioning

///help fish looks like it has nitrate posioning
help fish looks like it has nitrate posioning 2017-02-13T20:39:10-06:00

goldfish emergency Forums gfe FORUM Diagnose Goldfish Symptoms and Treat help fish looks like it has nitrate posioning

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    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
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      Post count: 23
      #19342 |

      Yesterday I did a 25% water change. I did not check parameters and today I noticed one of my goldfish (I believe he is sensitive to nitrates) in distress. I checked the water parameters and the my nitrites were ammonia are 0 , ph 8. Nitrates were probably 30 (I have a hard time distinguishing between the colors on the liquid test).
      I did a 25% water change and then 2-3 hours later, I did another water change.
      He is sinking to the bottom and also swimming erratically sometimes just sort of floating around. current parameters nitrites and ammonia 0, ph 8 and nitrates about 5.

      Is there anything I can do to help him?
      here is a link to a video of him.

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      current :
      kh 90
      gh 275
      I am going to refrigerate a pitcher of water and add to tank based on another suggestion on post

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      We gave him castor oil tonight and he is still sitting at the bottom. Current tank water temp is 68 and I have added a small fan at the top of the water to add more oxygen to the water.

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      The video is a short one, and just shows him sinking. When he lifts from the bottom, does he struggle to do so? When he stops struggling, does he sink?

      Has the fish been eating normally?

      If not, it’s possible nitrates were bothering him, causing him to lose his appetite. When fish go too long without eating they lose the power to lift. This is because waste in the tract creates gas (Co2) that is utilized by the swim bladder organ. No waste, no gas, no functioning. The organ is connected to the tract. It’s the opposite of the floating issues where the tract is impacted, trapping gas in the bladder. In some cases the bladder literally collapses

      When you perform a 25% water change, are you preparing 25%, and then exchanging 5% every half hour? This is preferable for fish with nitrate issues. This method keeps the water table as high as possible, and lowers nitrates gradually. Removing 25% at one time and replacing it, does the opposite, causing injury

      Do you see any signs of curling to the side?

      Did you eliminate supersaturated gases from the freshwater before the water changes? Exchanging a lot of water in a short time may reduce toxin levels, but it also poses the risk of SSG issues. These gases are found in tap water, and created by pressure. They cause the same symptoms as nitrate poisoning or shock

      If the fish is suffering from nitrate shock due to a water change, it should improve within a few days.

      Look for tiny bubbles on the sides of the tank; SSG

      If the fish isn’t eating, let us know, and we’ll discuss

      How old is this fish?

      The dorsal fin looks slightly clamped, however, this may be misleading due to the fact the video was short. You say ammonia is zero, but what are KH levels. When too high, carbonate mineral has the same effect as ammonia

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      Okay, I see your KH posted. It’s on the low side, so let’s buffer it. This parameter gives water the ability to support oxygen. Oxygen and carbonate mineral together make up pH. KH is responsible for alkalinity

      Premix one teaspoon of bicarbonate (baking) soda in a quart of tank water. Pour all around slowly mixing with your hand as you do so. Wait for a half hour and test KH. If still low, continue with the process until parameter is 140

      Have you salted recently? It might be a good idea to give the fish a salt bath. It’s possible the cycle has experienced a spike. Even though you’re getting zero readings for ammonia and nitrite, this doesn’t mean they weren’t present previously; damage done. Salt improves gill function, which couldn’t hurt either way

      Add one tablespoon of salt with one gallon of tank water. Leave the fish in the bath for two to five minutes. Pour the bath in the tank for good measure

      Check out our remedies tog remedies I might recommend the green tea remedy to increase blood flow

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      I gave him a castor oil treatment last night and within an hour he was better!

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      Did you administer Castor oil before posting or after? In other words, is the fish alright now?

      That’s fast acting if so. Castor oil takes some time to get the job done. Was the fish experiencing floating issues previously? Castor oil, as we all know, lubricates the track, helping waste to be eliminated. Floating issues are caused by waste slowing or becoming impacted. When this happens gas (created from waste) becomes trapped in the swim bladder organ (the two being connected) and keeps the fish from being able to sink. A sinking issue is the opposite

      I will say, Castor oil is pretty impressive stuff, being made up of 16 amino acids. It’s also used for several other conditions, exterior and interior

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      I didn’t realize you have to change water so slowly with nitrate problem. I did 25% first day when there wasn’t a problem, then I noticed he had a problem the next day and I did 25% change and then two hours later another 25% change.
      AT cricket’s suggestion I did the oil last night. She knows the fish has past swim bladder issues. I had also added another pump and put a fan directed at the top of the water. I have another fish and he wasn’t exhibiting any signs of distress.
      I always eliminate the ssg’s in a tank for about 30 minutes with a pump, before adding to the tank. I didn’t notice he wasn’t eating until he was sitting at the bottom of the tank. He ate a pea last night, and is eating normally today so he is out of crisis mode.
      The fish is 12-13 years old.

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      Glad to hear it. Yes, I would say the fish is still nitrate sensitive. There are a few things you can do to help. Keeping the water table as high as possible at all times, gradually reducing levels, and most importantly, keeping KH up to high end of comfort zone. Even though you’re doing everything possible to make sure the water is properly oxygenated, all the movement, all the fresh air in the world won’t help if the KH is low

      Buffer to 140 and keep it there. This means buffering and testing, testing and buffering. Your KH levels aren’t dangerously low, but even if fish are healthy, why not give them the best water. Your GH looks fine, but if you want to buffer now and then as a tonic it would be beneficial

      Green tea and chlorophyll remedies are beneficial for fish that have experienced nitrate issues. The green juice enriches the bloodstream, and the green tea gets it moving

      It’s no easy task, but try keeping nitrates max 20 ppm. If you have algae growth, encourage it. Algae feeds on nitrates. If you remove it, do so very consistently. Removing a lot of algae at one time causes a large spike in nitrates

      By the way, I’ve coined the term ‘nitrate shock’ and it’s real. Different from nitrate poisoning; the onset is caused by a sudden and large change in nitrates, and can be just as lethal

      It’s an accomplishment to have fish this old. Let’s keep them around for a few more years :good:

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      HOw many times should I “oil” the fish?

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      Only when floating symptoms reoccur

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      He ate and is again sitting at the bottom. The other fish seems to have no problems. I am addressing the KH issue. Should I continue oiling the fish again?

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      I wouldn’t administer oil to a fish that isn’t floating. They float because they’re constipated, and the oil eliminates waste from the tract, relieving the condition, eliminating the floating issue

      When a fish is on the bottom, it’s been affected by nitrates. If the fish ate, he’s going to recover as long as the nitrates are consistently low, and the water table high. it doesn’t hurt to keep the temps low like you’ve been doing

      Yes, raise that KH as soon as possible. That your fish was so easily affected tells me it’s not fully recovered from the previous poisoning. Nitrates rob the blood of oxygen, and water rich in oxygen is the key to recovery. Remember, KH is a part of pH

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      Thanks so much! Should I do a salt bath also ? I didn’t do one yesterday.

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      I think it would be beneficial, but we don’t want to lift the fish off the bottom. Reason being; fish poisoned by nitrates need deep water. The pressure (weight) of the water relieves the pressure caused by nitrates. This is why they bottom sit

      If you can manage it, here’s a link leading to instructions for what I call ‘the in house bath’ The fish remains in deep water, but receives the benefit of a salt bath while it remains in the tank, in deep water In house bath

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      I did the inhouse salt bath.
      current water parameters
      ammonia and nitrite 0
      nitrate 5
      ph 8
      kh 143
      gh 305

      I have brought the temp down to about 65degrees
      Issy every once in a while will torpedo to the top, grab air, go back down and release a bubble.

      Here are videos of him at the bottom of the tank.

      any other ideas? green tea bath? he isn’t really eating looks like he is interested but it doesn’t look like the food is going in his mouth.

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      He now looks like he is breathing really hard and he is curling. I put a divider in to separate from the other fish

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      The curling, caused by pressure, is another symptom of nitrate poisoning

      Your parameters look great, all except for pH; it’s still low. Now that you’ve got your KH up, there’s no reason for low pH unless oxygen is an issue. Open a window or door periodically to get fresh air in the house. If you haven’t, set up a fan so that it blows across the surface. The water movement clears the body of water. KH gives the water the ability to support oxygen, and last but not least, the surface must be exposed to fresh air

      Being indoors, fresh air is sometimes an issue in the winter with windows shut tight. Not only is there Co2 (gas produced from waste) there’s also Co2 in our homes. Every time we breathe out, we’re filling a room with Co2

      Do you have any 3% hydrogen peroxide on hand? If not pick up a bottle at the grocery store. Premix one ounce per 10 gallons of tank water in a quart of tank water; pour in all around slowly mixing with your hand as you do so. H202 is oxygenated water. Perform this treatment three times a day for first day, two times second day, and then once a day for a week or so

      If the one fish looks to be in a panic, you might check inside the mouth for a stone. It’s not common, but it happens. There was a fish on our facebook page that got a stone stuck in a nostril. What are the chances? :wacko:

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      Sorry I didn’t measure ph after I raised the KH, it was very late last night. It is 8.3 this morning.
      I added hydrogen pyroxide this morning(that is part of my water changing routine every time I do WC).
      Before I went to bed, he wasn’t curling but still bottom sitting.
      This morning he isn’t curling. I think he ate a pea or two and I believe he pooped as there was green debris floating at top of his side of the tank.
      I have to leave and will be back in a few hours.
      I have a small fan blowing on top of the water (was blowing on it all last night).

      He is still swiming to the top every once in a while grabbing air then going back down.

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      Good deal. Your water is excellent right now. Keep it up

      Goldfish that have been in water low in oxygen may feel deprived long after the water is buffered and oxygenated. This is because they don’t have lungs. They can’t appreciate oxygenated water until their bloodstream becomes oxygenated, which takes time, and with nitrate poisoning, plenty of it

      Interesting fact; goldfish that have been in water low in oxygen for a long time period, continue surfacing as a habit. They don’t know why they do it; they just know it’s what they do.

      Your water wasn’t seriously low, just low enough for a fish sensitive to nitrates to feel deprived

      Your fish is on the mend :yahoo:

      H202 begins to degrade as soon as it hits the water, so in times of need, use more often; three to four times daily max. Just don’t make a habit of overuse. Grocery store H202 is low in quality. Besides, we shouldn’t have to depend on it if our water is right, however, your fish needs the extra boost right now

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      Should I be putting him in a deep bucket as a hospital bucket for the depth for healing? Or just wait it out?
      KH went down again so I am adding more baking soda tonight.

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      How deep is your tank?

    • Cricket
      Participant
      Post count: 11

      Your tank’s a 20 long, isn’t it Sammy?

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      The water is about 11.5 inches deep.
      He is eating but still bottom sitting.
      Is it normal for the KH to go decrease over 24 hours?

    • Cricket
      Participant
      Post count: 11

      Yes, it can decrease in 24 hours and when you have a sick fish, it’s good to test it daily and add baking soda whenever needed.

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      I have in mind, a goldfish aquarium or tank that has a shallow end on one side, and a deep end on the other, giving fish an option. Floating fish need shallow water, but fish with nitrate issues need the deep

      Give him a couple of days, and maybe you should spread water changes out even more due to the shallow depth. It’s risky, the chamber. You really have to be on top of it. I think you could pull it off; very time consuming too

      Do you have two pumps in your tank?

      I’ve got instructions for the deep chamber therapy; it works. Consider investing in a mean green remedy to enrich the blood

      Keep buffering. Add sea shells; helps support KH

      Eating is a very good sign

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      I do normally have two pumps. I have my spare pump in there right now (so three are in there) trying to increase the oxygen level. I do take the third pump out when I am not here as I don’t have a sponge on it. I bought a sponge for it last night but it needs to be fitted by my husband.

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      do you sell the mean green remedy?
      I like your deep and shallow tank idea!!

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      he continues to eat a little and every once in a while swims around foraging but goes back to bottom sitting for most of the time.
      After he gets better, should the kh remain at 140 range?

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      Video of Issy tonight

      Is there any way this could be a sinking swim bladder issue? :scratch:

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      Can the fish lift from the bottom, or does it have to thrust in order to rise, and then it sinks against its will? A floating issue causes the fish to rise against its will

    • Cricket
      Participant
      Post count: 11

      It looks to me like Issy has improved! Keep up the good work!

      I had a fish with sinking disorder. He couldn’t get of the bottom without a ton of effort. Issy looks like he’s swimming well in the video and doing much better than before. He may still rest on the bottom when tired or not feeling well, but it looks like you’re on the right track. Keep those nitrates low and KH and GH up.

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      I think it can lift on its own. doesn’t seem to have a buoyancy problem but I don’t understand why he gulps the air at top then breathes the air out half way down. I was just thinking it was a bladder issue. His dorsal fin looks slightly clamped down to me.
      He seems worse today. Is the tank supposed to be cooler or warmer during this time?
      Should I try another in tank salt bath?
      IT is a 20’long tank, cricket.
      Can I buy the book with the remedies in an online version?

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      Keep the water temp at 68f or so

      I wouldn’t do another bath just now

      Better act fast because this book is coming down in a few days. ahahahaha (evil witches laugh)

      He gulps air because his blood has been thickened by nitrates. He’s being deprived of oxygen because of it. He would be a goner right now if your water wasn’t in such good shape

    • SammyandIssy (Expert Goldfish Keeper)
      Member
      Post count: 23

      My fish is doing better but not completely. After he eats a pea, he tends to sit at the bottom and appears to chew for a long time. He is swimming around and foraging but still sits at the bottom quite a bit of the time and hides behind the pump. Is he still healing? Why does he sit after he eats a bite?

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      When a fish is poisoned by nitrite or nitrates, the toxin thickens the blood. All of the body parts and function slow. Under the best care, it will take months for your fish to recover, and even then it will be super sensitive

      That the condition hasn’t worsened is a good sign. Keep up the good work

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