Hip in distress

Hip in distress 2016-04-18T00:22:09-05:00
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    • Anonymous
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      #17099 |

      I found Hip floating upside down this afternoon. This is the first time. More concerning is that her rump is mushy. No pineconing, yet. I’m worried that it’s the same infection Po had, with organ failure. I have garlic in and am making milk thistle tea, which I’ll start tonight. I’m debating whether to set up a hosp tub and get an antibiotic started. I’ve caught it earlier than i did with Po and maybe i should break out the big guns rather than wait?

      I have her resting in her colander because she seems weak. Hungry as usual, but weak.

      Tank 71 and clear.
      Amm 0
      Nitrite 0
      Nitrate 20
      GH 380
      KH 120
      Ph 8.1

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      Oh no……….not good

      No, don’t use antibiotic. think about it. If she’s swollen and mushy, her kidneys aren’t functioning properly; she’s retaining fluid. Antibiotic will stress the organ even more. Antibiotic for septicemia, but not organ failure. Garlic to reduce the risk of infection….yes

      The milk thistle combined with dandelion would be my choice of herbs. If her scales lift, we’ll use cold water to reduce fever, but not until. The tonic won’t be effective in cold water

      TOG remedy is listed here, and the juice is mixed with oxygenated water; this will give her the boost she needs, and increase the power of the treatment at the same time Our gfe Store

      I would set her up in a hospital tank; only because you can treat her more easily with less portions, control the temps, and it will be a safer environment. My concern is, do you have a small pump in your main tank you could pull to use in the hospital tank? This could keep you from having to use increased dosages of water treatment in her water to protect her from ammonia. The more pure her water the better. Of course, maybe a nursery set up in your main tank could do the job since your temps are at 71f and your parameters are excellent as always

      It might be beneficial to pick up a few jugs of Spring water to use in her tank. Test to see if it needs buffering. We would want GH at the low end of the comfort zone, KH in the medium zone

      How many oil treatments has she had in the past if any? What type of oil do you have on hand? Castor? This would be the oil of my choice due to the 16 amino acids it contains. Mix Castor with warmed tank water. Dose her morning and night with just five or six drops. Let’s see if this helps her floating situation. Swelling from organ failure doesn’t cause a fish to flip

      We often see combined symptoms

      Organ failure is so common with goldfish due to the amount of toxins, salts and chemicals they must endure in their lives. I just completed an article on the topic

      Poisoning our Fish

      In order for the oil to work, the tank water must be at least 72f

      All that being said, I don’t have to tell you how serious organ failure is. To date, only a few fish we’ve treated here have recovered

    • Venus
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      Post count: 133

      Just so you don’t blame yourself, read this recent article I wrote. It’s the industry, not you

      Poisoning Our Fish

    • Anonymous
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      Post count: 104

      I have her in the main tank and cradle her in a colander when she looks like she’s having trouble. She spent the night in it last night and did well most of the day today. No flipping and pretty well controlled swimming. Much better.

      I thought of dandelion right away (see what a good teacher you are?), but only had milk thistle in tea form, so started it yesterday, along with the garlic and garlic peas. I’ll make fresh dandelion tomorrow. Lord knows we have enough of them on the backyard. We don’t fertilize or spray, so they should be okay.

      I have castor and will start that as well. Or should i hold off as long as she’s swimming well?

      Questions: I know scales raise with fever, so if that happens can i assume it’s infection?

      If she’s doing well in the main tank, I’d like to leave her there if you agree. She’s got good water, treatments, etc. and it would be less stressful for her if she maintains well in there.

      We’re having a heat wave, so temps are 73.

    • Anonymous
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      Post count: 104

      She’s never had oil before, just because she’s never had floating issues til yesterday.

      I’ll look for a suitable nursery. The colander is small and I’d like to keep her in the main tank, especially if the prognosis is bad. I want her as happy and comfortable as possible.

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      Even if the scales raise, don’t be tempted to use the antibiotics; not with kidney failure. Infection often sets in when an organ fails, and if it does, this lessons her chance of recovery, but meds would make certain of it

      No, I wouldn’t give the oil unless the floating condition crops up again

      I’ll email instructions

    • Anonymous
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      Post count: 104

      Got em. Thanks!

    • Anonymous
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      Post count: 104

      I’m on day 3 of dandelion and milk thistle in the tank and day 2 of baths. Hip is looking much better today. Not sure it will last, but she has better energy and just looks better. I had just the milk thistle in for 2 days before the dandelion arrived, along with garlic.
      Temp is 72. I’ve been bringing GH down and it’s at around 250 ppm. Are we lowering it because it’s easier on her organs? KH is just under 120.
      I’ve been doing 25-30 minute baths because she’s tolerating them well. She spends the night in her colander and is doing well with swimming all through the day.

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      That’s great news. Yes, we’re keeping GH low because magnesium can be considered as a poison in large amounts. Even though levels of 400 is safe, lower levels at this time will reduce the stress

      Does Prime convert metals? Seems like it does. Have we ever looked at the metal content of your water? Even though our cities filter metals from water, older homes can have copper in large enough amounts that water treatment can’t convert. Something to think about, especially if you have two fish that have suffered similar issues. Although, Hip and Po came from the same breeder, and it’s more likely that breeder is responsible for using chemicals; large amounts of water treatment, salts or meds. They won’t disclose the facts, so it really doesn’t matter why

      There’s also the overuse of water treatment in our tanks during a spike or cycle. The industry pushes toxic chemicals on goldfish keepers right and left

      Hang in there old girl(s)

    • Anonymous
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      Post count: 104

      Thanks. Prime says it detoxifies heavy metals found in normal concentrations in tap water. I’ll ask Terry about the plumbing. Seems to me it’s copper, but I’ll double check.

      How many days of in-tank treatment am I doing? And when I’m finished, how long to wait before repeating? They’ve had 6 days of milk thistle today (although I was only adding 1 TBL/10gals for the first 2 days) and 4 days of dandelion. They had 3 days of garlic. Can I do more? And do I wait 3 weeks before repeating the garlic? I’m doing 10 days of garlic peas twice daily… is that too long?

    • Anonymous
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      Post count: 104

      I’m planning on doing the full 5 days of baths for Hip.

    • Venus
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      Post count: 133

      Yes, I would. Then give her and yourself a break

    • Anonymous
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      Post count: 104

      Okay. Should I do the in-tank treatment for 5 days as well? And then, how long of a break before repeating?

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      Nah, I would give the in house treatment a rest. Wait for two weeks and then repeat the entire program

    • Anonymous
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      Post count: 104

      Will do. Thanks, as always, for all your help.

    • Anonymous
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      Post count: 104

      I’m happy to report that Hip is back to her normal behavior and energy level. She hasn’t had to be in the colander for over 24 hours. Normal swimming and fully conscious (I think she was having times of semi consciousness for a few days there). I’m sure her rump is still mushy and I don’t kid myself that she’s out of the woods, but what we’ve got right now is SO much better than the sure death I was expecting that I just had to share and say… THANK YOU, VENUS!!! Thank you for being here with natural remedies, for knowing all that you know and for sharing it with me. You are truly my goldfish guru. If I had listened to you a year ago and started treatment for this then, Hip wouldn’t be so near the edge right now – a mistake I will never make again!

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      I love a post that starts with ‘I’m happy to report’ I love good news, and it is that. Thank you….and please give yourself a big pat on the back ma dear

      No, the war is not over, but a battle has been won :yahoo:

    • Anonymous
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      Post count: 104

      I repeated the baths last week. Terry’s in the midst of a kitchen remodel, so everything is extra challenging. I’ll do the in-tank treatments as soon as things are approaching normality again. Hip is chugging along; no huge improvement, but no crises either. No more floating issue.
      I’m feeding only moist foods these days. Anyone want a giant bag of flakes? My fish are getting only gel food, peas and algae. Happy fish!

    • Venus
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      Post count: 133

      It’s hard to get through the day without a kitchen, no less take care of the fish, but yippee! a new and improved kitchen is pretty awesome; worth the trouble

      I know you know how serious her condition is. Any improvement, or even the fact her condition hasn’t worsened is good news, but here’s another little something you can do; raise the KH level in the food you’re feeding; use tank water to make gel food if you’re not already. Keep tank KH levels at 140 to 160 ppm. Also, consider adding some horsetail herb to the gel food

      If you can manage, give her a few drops of olive oil once a day

    • Anonymous
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      Post count: 104

      Thanks. One point of confusion; i thought I was keeping both GH and KH lower for her, so I just want to be sure before I raise KH.

    • Venus
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      Post count: 133

      That was GH, not KH. I would have thought it made sense to not keep it too high, but after reading that article (should have saved it) I’m convinced that keeping a healthy KH is the key to healthy organ function. Acid takes a big toll on all of our organs. The key to good health for all of us is to make sure our bodies have a healthy alkaline balance

    • Anonymous
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      Post count: 104

      Of course, that makes so much sense. I never made the connection; everything I’ve learned about human health says that an alkaline diet is key to fighting any disease (preventing it, too).

      Now, the olive oil – instead of castor? And if so, why? Inquiring minds want to know. lol

      By the way, Hip is looking really, really good.

    • Anonymous
      Inactive
      Post count: 104

      Hip has taken a real turn for the worse (and I’m expecting the worst). She went upside down again a few days ago and nothing is helping. I’m oiling her twice a day, started her dandelion/ thistle baths again and have same treatments in the tank as well as garlic and aloe. To top out all off, I’m having a spike due to experimenting with 33% W/Cs twice. That just started this am though. Nitrite is only .25 and I have full tank doses of Amquel Plus and Fish Protector in as of today.

      What else can I do? KH at 120-140. It’s not looking good. She has steadily worsened for 4-5 days.

    • Anonymous
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      Post count: 104

      Does Amquel make the water frothy? I’ve got some froth since I started using it yesterday.

    • Anonymous
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      Post count: 104

      Maybe gill flushing? With H2O2?

    • Venus
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      Post count: 133

      Sorry for the delay in my response. Our internet isn’t dependable, and you can if the server is up, our internet is down

      Is she on the bottom or closer to the top?

      Okay, the oil has done its job, and if it hasn’t worked, the tract is inflamed for some reason; possibly infection in the body. We need something for inflammation and infection, and fast. Maybe a combo tea with tumeric and ginger? Garlic? Might take a trip to the health food store to see what teas they have in stock

    • Anonymous
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      Post count: 104

      I have garlic in the tank and have ginger tea on hand. I’ll put it in. She’s actually somewhat better today. Will keep up the oil twice daily. Thanks!

    • Venus
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      Post count: 133

      I wouldn’t do any more oil. Less is more. The oil has cleared the tract, and if she’s continuing to get constipated it’s due to inflammation. Instead of oil, start her on the digestive therapy

    • Anonymous
      Inactive
      Post count: 104

      She’s floating at the top.

    • Anonymous
      Inactive
      Post count: 104

      I’ve only been oiling for a day or two. I’d like to go a bit longer with it. How long is not too long?

      I’m preparing a tea and was going to do the organ combo and the ginger. She’s had 4-5 days of the organ herbs; should I do just ginger instead? I just finished a garlic treatment in the tank.

    • Anonymous
      Inactive
      Post count: 104

      I did just the ginger tea. She’s floating at the top, upside down. She can right herself, but the gas or fluid in her belly pulls her over again when she gets tired. She’s more distended on the right abdomen than left. Sides of the abdomen are firm all the way back to her anal fins. Rump itself is mushy. So is her belly.

      How long is too long to use the oil? I’ve oiled her three times I think.

    • Venus
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      Post count: 133

      The oil would have worked if waste was obstructing the swim bladder. Try the digestive therapy. Did you see my PM?

      It’s hard to take, watching her floating aimlessly, but keep in mind, this in itself isn’t a life threatening condition; it’s only a side effect. It sounds like you’re giving it your all, and that’s all you can do

    • Anonymous
      Inactive
      Post count: 104

      No, I’ll check my PMs. Ihave her in the colander which keeps her safe from bumping things or being bumped, anyway. Did the oil a 4th time last night, no improvement. No pine coning.

    • Anonymous
      Inactive
      Post count: 104

      Did the digestive therapy and will do again tonight.

      I’m worried she’s headed for the dreaded dropsy. Po did this but he also pineconed.

    • Venus
      Participant
      Post count: 133

      Po pineconed because he became infected, but hopefully, Hip won’t go there. With organ failure, treating infection with antibiotics is a catch 22. It helps the infection, but the weakened organs can’t deal with the meds. There’s no denying it, this is serious condition for any type of animal, and just think, this could be avoided if our breeders stopped abusing salts and chemicals. It’s a shame

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