Comet Goldfish Pineconing.

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Comet Goldfish Pineconing.

Today I found one of my goldfish Comet, pineconening.

 

Currently its with 5 other goldfish in a 120g Acrylic tank with a Canister filter and a water pump.

its about 8 years old when I got it as an abandoned goldfish. I googled up some treatments but I wanted to get your input on how to treat it and save it.

I got Epsom Salt and Pond Salt to get started it on treating it. Comet still swims around right side up, eats and socializes with its other tank mates.

Any input is greatly appreciated on how to save it.

Water parameters areĀ  0/0/30 with the ph at 7.8.

Water temps are currently 72 Degrees.

More pics and videos available upon request.

Thanks for reading this, Theo75.

 

2017-09-27T05:58:07+00:00

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13 Comments

  1. Venus October 1, 2017 at 7:25 am

    If you raised GH levels in the fish house using Epsom, there’s no need to use it in the cold bath. Your fish need healthy levels of magnesium all of the time. Have you considered raising KH using baking soda? This too would be beneficial

    Have you started feeding garlic peas yet?

    Are the scales still raised?

    Laying on its side isn’t a good sign, but if it’s still eating, it’s trying, and so should we

    If it were my fish I would have it in dandelion combined with garlic remedy, in water rich in mineral value with increased water movement. GH and KH both would be at the high end of the comfort zone. That being said; we do what we can do, and there are times when the budget doesn’t allow any extras, but thankfully, Epsom and soda are cheap, and easy to obtain

  2. theo75 September 30, 2017 at 11:12 pm

    Hopefully this shows up.
    I found Comet laying down today and its been laying on the bottom of the tank, with labored breathing, still bloated. Sometimes it moves and hides in the pots or behind them. I have been giving it Chilled Epsom water baths and its been eating.
    https://youtu.be/SyXNkyvkdik
    I am accepting that there is not much I can do, even though with the great guidance here. I am going to do my best to make it as comfortable before it passes.
    I will still keep giving it the epsom baths as long as it gives it relief.
    It used to zip around with the rest of the fish yesterday, but today it seems it prefers to lay down on the tank bottom and coming out to eat when food is available.

  3. Venus September 29, 2017 at 9:37 pm

    Your comment showed up, but not as the most recent; an improvement

    Use the Epsom to buffer the GH levels of your fish house; raise to 300 ppm. Start by dissolving one tablespoon (per 10 gallons of tank water) in warm water, add to freshwater before a water change. Test 30 minutes to an hour after the water change. If it’s still low, pull a quart of tank water, and add more Epsom. Build levels gradually so as not to go over the mark

    If you want to raise KH, use bicarbonate of soda. Use same instructions as above; only start with 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons of tank water. The goal is 120 ppm

    Raising these parameters is all important, as fish are only as healthy as the water they swim in. I just recently stumbled across an article written by a doctor that was raising the alkalinity in patients with organ failure, and the results were remarkable. If you remember, I stated that KH gives water the ability to support oxygen; the same is true for the blood stream. As far as fish are concerned, the KH level in their blood will be the same as the water. Oxygen destroys bad bacteria, so oxygenating the bloodstream could give the fish the extra boost it needs to get through this

    I say to buffer the main tank, because all of the fish need the minerals, and the sick fish needs these minerals consistently in order to benefit

  4. Venus September 28, 2017 at 9:52 pm

    Theo, for some reason your most recent comment isn’t showing up on the front side of the site; we’ve got a glitch somewhere. It reads as follows

    In reply to Venus.
    I found no bloody patches on Comet yet, I gave him the epsom salt bath and kept it in there for about an hour until I got done with the water change.
    https://youtu.be/WHwHjjkITFY
    I used chilled tank water and added epsom salt, Its 94 outside today so I added a frozen water bottle to keep the water chilled as much as possible.
    After the bath I put comet back with the tank and it swam around and fed it.

    Where are you located Theo? We’re having cool weather in Missouri US

    Just like people, fish have immune systems; good or bad. In most cases a healthy fish can ward off infection, but sometimes the immune system needs a little boost. I’m hoping your fish’s immune system will kick in. I didn’t see any swelling, but if you do, this indicates fluid retention. Let’s keep a close watch

    Are you working on removing the salt? Fluid retention is often caused by lack of kidney function, and salt adds an additional strain on this organ

    • theo75 September 29, 2017 at 3:26 pm

      Im still located in LA, CA. Its Fall now so were still getting hot weather at the moment. So far Comet is swimming around, sits at the bottom, comes up to eat and greet me.
      How often should I give Comet the Epsom Cold Water bath?

  5. Venus September 28, 2017 at 7:38 am

    Adding Epsom increases magnesium levels which increases GH levels. One drop equals 17.9 ppm, and the comfort zone for GH is 200 to 400 ppm. It would take 15 or more drops to get to the low end of the zone

    Feed your fish when you first wake up, again before you leave for work; after work, and again before you go to bed. The idea is to feed less food at each meal, so feed same amount as you’ve been feeding daily, just decrease the size of the meal

    All you need for a bath is a gallon container. I use plastic ice cream containers; they’re perfect. Chill tank water in the fridge for two hours before the bath to make sure it’s good and cold. Remember to beat it with a whisk to oxygenate it. Don’t delay in giving the bath, as infection takes its toll. Time is of the essence

    Epsom salts (magnesium) is a vital mineral your fish needs for good health. Using regular salt doesn’t do anything for the water quality, and if your fish is swelling, it could have an adverse effect. Salt destroys bad bugs in water, but not in the body. We use it kill external parasites or bad bugs in the water. It also improves gill function. We also use salt to increase the slime coat. It works by irritating the tissue, causing it to secrete extra slime, but fish that live in healthy water have healthy slime coats. Healthy water discourages the formation of bad bugs

    Use salt occasionally as needed. The industry recommends using a lot of salt, and some so called experts say to keep a consistent saline solution in the water, but goldfish are freshwater fish, and salt stresses their organs. Bad bugs quickly build an immunity to salt anyway, so in this case, less is more

    Only use Epsom when you’re raising GH levels, and be sure to test before and after buffering

    Stabilizing water quality; what does this mean? Healthy water has GH levels of 200 to 400 ppm and KH levels of 100 to 140 ppm. If the cycle is complete with zero ammonia and nitrites; if nitrates are kept at low levels of 20 to 40 ppm, this is considered as a stable environment. The industry often recommends large water changes, but small and more frequent water changes are preferable. This reduces the risk of nitrate shock, and keeps the parameters more consistent

  6. Venus September 27, 2017 at 9:08 pm

    The biggest concern with an impacted tract; the fish will continue eating, which worsens the situation, and places the fish at risk of a tear in the intestinal wall, leading to blood poisoning. This is why clearing the tract quickly is all important

    Watch for red bloody patches to appear beneath the tissue

    • theo75 September 28, 2017 at 1:28 am

      I will. The 6 goldies you saw are Titanica , Platino , Comet, White Belly, and Sponge Bob the small white one. Titanica the common, its a female since the other goldfish were chasing her around during the spring and she fought them off. I feed my fish twice a day, once in the morning before I leave and again in the night when I come home. I havent added Epsom salt to the water changes since the water quality has been stable, though recently my drip tests for Gh has not been responding, usually they would change colors after 7 drops for each test.
      http://www.apifishcare.com/pdf/58_and_59_GH_KH_Test_Kit_Insert.pdf

      I just have restocked on Epson and Pond Salt to see if adding epson salt will help stabilize the water quality again. I also notice that my drip test may be expired and I will have to get a new one to get an accurate reading. I will give my bloated fish a cold bath once I get a bigger tank since all I have to keep it in is a 2.5 g tank that I use for closer examination.

      Should I use current tank water or freshly treated water from the tap with Prime when I do the cold bath?

    • theo75 September 28, 2017 at 6:16 pm

      I found no bloody patches on Comet yet, I gave him the epsom salt bath and kept it in there for about an hour until I got done with the water change.
      https://youtu.be/WHwHjjkITFY
      I used chilled tank water and added epsom salt, Its 94 outside today so I added a frozen water bottle to keep the water chilled as much as possible.
      After the bath I put comet back with the tank and it swam around and fed it.

  7. Venus September 27, 2017 at 8:34 pm

    Make sure the peas are soft with shells removed; soak em in garlic water for a good 24 hours before feeding. Prepare enough for four days at a time; feed nothing but

    One drop for KH? Test pH in tap and compare to the pH reading in the tank water. With a reading of 7.8 for pH, the KH would be at least 70 to 80 ppm. If I remember the drop test kit for KH, the first drop turns the water blue, and then you stop counting when the water turns yellow. Is this right?

    Either your pH or KH test results are inaccurate. Let’s double check this. Right now what your fish needs more than anything is the best water you can provide

    How much Epsom did you add to the tank water? Did you stop counting drops at 15 or did the color change. Just trying to make sure GH isn’t over the high end of the comfort zone; probably not a concern

    If you read my post thoroughly, you saw I directed you to give the fish a cold bath, but you could also reduce the temps in the main tank down to 68f. Lowering the temps for long periods of time in the main tank will slow the digestive system; not good. We need to clear the tract as quickly as possible. Peas do not relieve constipation, but if the case isn’t too impacted, they can help get things moving along

    I wouldn’t feed any flakes or pellets until the situation has improved. You didn’t say how many times a day you feed, but spreading the food out; feeding less more often could make a big difference

    I’m not entirely convinced we’re looking at a slow moving tract. You didn’t say if the you’ve seen any spawning activity. Even though you have a nice sized school, it’s possible they are all the same sex. It happens. There’s nothing worse than having a school of all females; there’s bound to be trouble with reproduction. Females produce eggs whether males are present of not, and most of the females need the males to help them release the eggs

    Did you say you had a real pond pump in your set up? If so, you can hold the fish over the jet. The pressure helps eggs release. Just make sure the pressure’s not too great. I had an old female that stopped emitting hormone (which encourages the males to chase) so the males stopped chasing her. She spent a lot of time hovering over the jets of the pumps. I use nothing but pond pumps in my tanks

  8. theo75 September 27, 2017 at 7:31 pm

    Thanks Venus, The drip tests for Gh dont change after 15+ drops. Kh changes color after 1 drop. Water is at 74 degrees at the moment.
    Here is a current video.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO_WI2eKpeg&feature=em-upload_owner
    Today is water change day so Ill be changing their water.
    Comet has been rather active and is doing his fishy business as usual.
    I am currently feeding them flakes soaked in tank water and feed it to them so it sinks to the bottom. I can get a bag of peas and some garlic to make them the garlic tonic and see if that helps comet.
    I can freeze some plastic coke bottles and dip them in the tank to lower the temps.
    Let me know what I could do help my fish pull though.
    Thanks for the responses.

  9. Venus September 27, 2017 at 6:48 am

    Here’s a link to the remedy page https://the-organic-fish.com/tof-products/

  10. Venus September 27, 2017 at 6:34 am

    Nice video; very helpful

    Yes, I see the scales are somewhat lifted. If you’re certain the water temperature hasn’t risen above 72f, the fish has a fever, and as we all know, fever is caused by infection

    I see the fish has some swimming issues as well, which could lead us to the cause of the raised scales

    Do you know if the fish is a male or female? Have you ever seen spawning activity in your fish house? One or more fish chasing another? If a female, she could have impacted eggs. If for some reason a female fish isn’t releasing eggs, they degrade inside of the sac, and become infected with bad bacteria. Impacted eggs cause the fish to lose control of swimming somewhat, typically floating at an angle nose down

    The only other thing that caused floating issues is constipation; very common in goldfish. They don’t have stomachs, and should eat less more often. Unfortunately, we’ve been led to believe that overfeeding once or twice a day is acceptable. The swim bladder organ is connected to the intestinal tract by a tiny tube where gas is exchanged; Co2 created by waste. When the fish wants to rise, the bladder fills with Co2. When the fish wants to sink, it releases the Co2 back into the tract. This is why it’s vital to keep the tract moving with small amounts of food fed throughout the day, just as the fish would feed in the wild

    If the tract becomes impacted, gas becomes trapped in the bladder, causing the fish to lose control of swimming. In light cases, the fish becomes overly buoyant, bouncing and rolling upside down. In extreme cases, the fish floats aimlessly at the surface

    What do you feed and how often?

    Their meals should include a variety. I feed four times a day; shelled peas, toasted wheat germ, flakes or gel food and blanched spinach. Food high in roughage keeps their tract moving. A slow moving tract invites bad bacteria

    My guess goes to a slightly impacted tract. The tract is probably infected, causing a light fever

    I might start by treating with Float remedy and backing it up by feeding shelled peas (and nothing but) marinated in garlic water; 10 days. The float remedy will clear the tract; the garlic will destroy any bad bacteria present while inviting good bacteria. The peas will keep the tract moving. After the 10 days, gradually add other foods to the diet, and remember to feel less food more often to keep the tract moving

    If your budget allows, consider the garlic treatment as well

    I would lay low on the salt, as I’ve heard that salt shouldn’t be used on fish with raised scales. I’m not sure how true this is, but don’t add any more, and remove gradually with small and frequent water changes over the next week

    Epsom salt is pure magnesium. Most of have low magnesium in our water, so you’re probably safe in using, but it’s standard procedure to test GH (general hardness) before adding. GH is a combined reading for magnesium (two parts) and calcium (one part) Most of have healthy calcium levels

    pH is a combined reading for oxygen and carbonate mineral

    Most over looked mineral is KH (carbonate mineral) KH. This mineral is responsible for alkalinity. Most people are unaware of this parameter. Test the pH levels in your tap and compare the readings to your tank water. If they’re the same (7.8), your KH may be a little low. If the tap is more than one or two ppm higher, oxygen levels may be low in your fish house

    I like seeing pH readings of 8. ppm or a little higher. Giving water the ability to support oxygen, KH should be at 120 ppm, give or take a ppm

    That being said, your pH reading is fine; better than most, and not the cause of your problem

    Reduce the fever by chilling a pitcher of tank water to prepare a cold bath. Once the water is chilled, work it over with a whisk to oxygenated. Catch up the fish in a gallon sized container. One cup at a time exchange the tank water for the chilled water. Leave the fish in the cold bath for a good thirty minutes before returning home. Release the fish and the cold water into the main tank

    Other than the floating issue and the raised scales, the fish looks great

    Hope this helps, and please keep us posted, Venus

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