Sick Koi but good water parameters in outdoor Koi Pond??
Hello,
I’m currently babysitting my parents’ outdoor koi pond and will be doing so for about 2 weeks. It’s quite a large pond (10,000 gallons and spans half of our backyard). We have several large koi (length of adult forearm) and several smaller goldfish (length of adult palm) and based on the number of fish, the pond may be overstocked. The outdoor temperature in Vancouver has been quite variable this summer (16 – 32 degrees Celcius. Low-mid 20’s this week but the temperature was up to 30 degrees over the last 2 weeks). For some reason the pond is losing about 4 inches of water each day so we refill the pond with a bit of fresh water each day (like a 5% daily partial water change!). My parents have had this pond for about 5 years.
At first glace, the fish look relatively healthy (full scales/fins) but there are always a few fish in the pond that have finrot, sores on the body or strange growths. Some fish have had raised scales, pineconing and died not having released their eggs. The fish have been exposed to salt and antibiotics many times. Sometimes the treatment works, but on average about 1 fish dies each month and my parents replace them. At the moment, one very large fish currently has sores on one side, some raised scales and prefers to swim at the bottom of the pond and doesn’t seem interested in food. Another strange observation: when I fed the fish this morning, I noticed that 3 smaller fish appeared to be chewing/biting another small fish of similar size in a corner of the pond. When I threw food at them, all of them swam away. What does this mean??
Seeing that there are always ill fish, I assumed that there must be problems with the water quality. However, when I tested the water parameters of a sample of pond water today, they seemed ok:
Ammonia: 0-0.1
Nitrite: 0-0.1
Nitrate: 5-10
pH: 7.2-7.4
KH: 10
GH: 20
Phosphate: 1
I came across your site and thought that the garlic may help. My parents usually feed Hikari pellets twice a day, so over the last 2 days I have been feeding a mix of presoaked pellets and cooked peas but I think only the smaller fish were able to see the crumbled peas because the large koi swam right through the small bits.
I have attached some images of the pond. Please let me know if you have any ideas
Thanks!!
-M
I thought 50,000 sounded a little much for the photo, but pics are really deceiving; much easier to deal with
You’re right; cleaning those sponges with hose water is a big no no. Sponges should be rinsed in old pond water at least once a week to keep bugs from building up in them, to keep the water clear and to keep the pump running smoothly. If it’s been some time since the sponges were cleaned, then yes, expect a spike in the cycle
That being said (do I say that too often? lol) beneficial bacteria prefer pond pumps whereas bad bugs prefer canisters. The hoses on the canisters are irresistible, but due to the design, canisters are cleaned often, which invites the bad bugs. Pond pumps are so simplistic, with sponges on the outside of the intakes, friendly bugs prefer them over canisters. They sit on the floor of the pond where the waste is; their food source. Friendly bugs require heavily oxygenated water which pond pumps provide, and canisters don’t. My guess is, most of your colony is in the pond pumps, so maybe you won’t get a spike at all
My guess is; your fountains are built in and connected to the canister, which makes them more complicated than what a pond pump should be. This is what most pond people do; complicate things, but no intentionally; this is what they think works
It’s good timing for your parents to arrive home. Hopefully the parameters won’t lower too much, and soon the remedies can be added, even though a healthy KH and GH is a remedy in itself
Hi Venus,
Before I test the parameters tonight,
I just wanted to provide an update. My parents returned this week and they decided to do a filter clean this morning. They pulled out all the filter sponges (10 big slabs) and sprayed them and the filter with a hose. I remember reading somewhere this would disrupt the cycle and kill off good bugs so I tried to get them to spray less and use pond water. Because the “basket strainer” (suction cup in pond for debris that leads to the filter) has not been working well, under the advice of the pond guy, they also put the filtration system on “back wash” mode. And of course, we added the usual water to the pond. The waterfall is running much better though. I fear many good bugs may have been destroyed today and the KH/GH we established may be lower. Will test and update tonight. Also, they told me that the pond should actually be 9500 gallons not 50,000. I’ll email you pictures I took of the different parts today
It might be interesting to test parameters against the quiet end of the pond against the end with the action. Test pH to compare
Yes, then you’ve got to double the amounts. You’re buffering a lot of water. It’s too bad the fountains aren’t on the other end. The lack of action at the quiet end could be dragging pH down, but we’ll see
Hi Venus,
Actually the KH and GH does drop daily as soon as Epsom/soda is stopped. I’m finding it takes the addition of 2poundsEpsom and 16oz soda to keep the levels the same (counter the leaked pond water) each day. 4pounds Epsom and 32-48oz increases the KH and GH.
I will monitor the readings of both ends of the pond tonight and see if I can stabilize them if satisfactory.
Please note, the pump and filter are both at the waterfall. The fish rarely hangout there because the water surface action is very strong. They swim there occasionally when they swim around the pond in a crowd but spend most of their time hanging out on the other side of the pond (eating and sleeping). It’s been this way for many years and may be difficult to change?
Very good. I was worried it would drop again, but this means it’s happening
The garlic remedy is concentrated; pure garlic juice. My plan is for you to treat the end of the pond where the pumps are; not the water fall. After treating, feed the fish in this area, and they’ll hang out there for some time feeding, reaping the benefits. I think the remedy will stay at that end for quite a spell; this is the nature of the pond pump. In fact, I was thinking of asking you to test both ends of the ponds, to see if one end had a higher reading for GH and KH
Yes, hold back a tablespoon of the garlic remedy and treat two cups of shelled peas for feeding; great thought. After the gel food is prepared, feed only peas and gel food
How are ammonia and nitrite levels?
The fish are already swimming in healthier water
If you’re of the mindset to spend a little more money, pick up some hydrogen peroxide to add to the water along with the remedy. All my remedies have H202 mixed in with the ingredients. It gives the remedy a longer shelf life, but also perks up the water quality giving it an extra boost, making it more effective. Most bottles are 3%, but you may find only 7%. If this is the case; it’s all the same only stronger
Combine four to five 16 oz, 3% jugs with garlic in a bucket of pond water; pour in all around slowly at the end of the pond with the pumps, mixing with your broom as you do so. H202 is pure oxygenated water. Not sure if it’s sold at your grocery store or pharmacy (you may call it chemist) but this is good to have on hand if the pumps were to go down. I buy 35% organic, and dilute it to suite my needs, but the stuff at the grocery store is just fine to use for short intervals. This is going to boost pH higher than normal, but that’s great if it does; no worries
We’re almost there now, and once we get there, you can rest assured your fish will be on the mend. The key will be keeping the levels up, and if you can manage that, instead of a acidic pond with sick fish, you’ll have an alkaline pond with healthy fish. You’ve really gone the distance for them
Hi Venus,
Looks like GH stabilizes at 80-100 and KH at 60-80 with 16oz soda and 2pounds of Epsom. Tonight I added 48oz soda and 4pounds of Epsom. Hopefully it won’t over shoot when I measure tomorrow night.
I’m excited to try the garlic and shrimp recipes. The garlic remedy says it treats 80 gallons though. Should I just add it to peas? And can I feed the shrimp gel recipe any time?
We’re getting there. If KH is still at 80 or higher after next test, we can add the garlic remedy. Keep in mind, your pond is huge, and you’re adding a lot of water to keep the table high, and the parameters were really low to start with
Keep it up
Your pH reading is right on target according to KH
Hi Venus,
Ive been doing 2 pounds Epsom 16-32oz soda and it’s had little effect.
Yesterday night I added 4pounds of Epsom and 48oz of soda and it finally moved the KH and GH.
Tonight KH was 80 and GH was 100. pH was 7.8-8.
I proceeded to add another 2 pounds of Epsom and 16oz soda tonight. Yes, mixed in warm water.
Will see what the readings are tomorrow night!
Those parameters just aren’t budging are they. Are you dissolving the soda in warm wat
Hi Venus,
KH was 30 and GH was 60 today.
I added 4 pounds of Epsom and 48oz baking soda. Will retest tomorrow.
Haven’t had a chance to look at filter with parents yet. Will soon
You got it. I should have thought of it before, but I rarely recommend them, and then only for aquariums due to the size
If you take the filter apart and feel in another world; take a pic or two, and maybe I can advise
I like the idea of the shells. So I would remove the carbon/charcoal (if that is what is in the filter) and replace with 10 of these shells?
You may have a filtering system that’s holding on to the soda; check it out. It may be necessary to change it up. I was thinking, most filters collect stuff, but if your filter has carbon or charcoal, let’s replace it with wonder shells
Wonder shells designed to increase KH and GH; brilliant really. Once the levels are right, the shells stop breaking down. Thing is; very pricy for a pond your size. I did a little searching, hoping to find shells for giant ponds, but this is the largest I could find. Also researched mineral blocks for horses, and no, they won’t work. One good thing about using the wonder shells, much less labor for your parents https://www.amazon.com/Weco-Wonder-Shell-Natural-Minerals/dp/B003C5RQNY
Let’s keep in mind we’re buffering 50,000 gallons of water, and that’s a lot of water. Let’s also remember the numbers we’re starting with are really low. When I first suggested starting with 16 oz of soda, this was just to see what it would do. Every body of water is different. Don’t be afraid to increase the amount. It’s seems futile right now, but in time the leak will get resolved one way or another, and the parameters will stabilize
I would guess the pet shop was using a cheap kit as well. In my experiences with our users, pet shop clerks typically give answers such as fine or okay, so you’re lucky to get a result. Any kit you can buy at a pet shop is considered as cheap compared to the ones our water department uses. The kits they use would cost well over $100 for just a KH kit, so we’re lucky to have kits that are affordable. Being off by 20 ppm is acceptable, but this is why I recommend comparing results or contacting the city to make sure
Are you dissolving the soda in warm water before adding to the pond? I’ve read that carbonate mineral doesn’t ever actually dissolve. If you look at a glass of water after adding soda, you’ll still see the granules floating around; just not quite so many, or maybe they get smaller. This is just one of the reasons that water movement is so important. It’s not just baking soda, but carbonate mineral in general
Ah…this could be one of the reasons the Nutrifin test kit is so much higher than the others. Calcium tester is one of the hard to find tests, but that’s really cool. GH should be one part calcium two parts magnesium. Could this get any more complicated? lol
Hi Venus,
Tonight KH was 30 and GH was 60. I added 32oz baking soda and 2pounds of Epsom. Was a bit conservative just in case. Will monitor again tomorrow.
My question about the Nutrafin liquid solution test kit was because I was curious why such an expensive test kit ($100) could be so inaccurate for pH. The test strips were more accurate and closely matched the petshop readings so I was wondering if it was something in the pond water that was making the liquid test go out of whack, but for some reason the test strips were immune to it and read more accurately. All the other parameters (other than pH) tested by the liquid test kit match those of the test strips.
Hi Venus,
I will test the pond water tonight before I add anything.
The water change was from a few days ago when I was panicking from the high KH that one evening I told you about. I don’t do water changes usually.
The soda is being mixed into tubs of pond water before being added to the pond. The temperature outdoors is 22-26 degrees celcius.
I called and left a message at the water department. I also emailed them but it may take some time before they get back to me.
The Nutrafin liquid test kit includes a calcium tester, should I use that on the tap water? I’m not sure my parents would be into changing the home’s filtering system though….
Let’s increase the 16 oz to 48 oz
What is the 20 gallon water change for? This may be a misunderstanding. As long as you’re topping off water, there’s no reason to exchange water. Are you mixing soda in warm water to somewhat dissolve? It may help. You may have missed that previous post. Carbonate mineral (soda) doesn’t break down well, and adding to warm water helps a bit
You may have also missed a previous post about contacting your water department to get KH and GH readings. If the KH in your city’s water is a lot higher than your tap, you’re on a filter. It may be possible to re-route you hose water. This would only make sense if the KH was quite a bit higher. I couldn’t find the info in a online water report. I would also like to know the calcium levels in your city water. Reason being, GH is made up of two parts magnesium (Epsom) and one part calcium. I’m wondering if it would help boost GH to add calcium to the water. If you are on a filtering system, calcium is being removed from the water as well
Did you ask your parents if they know if they’re on a filtering system? The idea of the filter is to keep the pipes clear of deposits, but if the fish are being deprived of valuable minerals, so are your parents
Just added 16oz soda and 2pounds of Epsom (this is the fourth batch altogether, including the batch I put in on that evening I did the 20 gallon water change)
Update:
Petshop confirmed
KH: 40
GH: 75
Just added 16oz soda and 2pounds of Epsom (this is the fourth batch altogether, including the batch I put in on that evening I did the 20 gallon water change)
Hi Venus,
It’s been about 24hours since I last added Epsom and soda.
I just tested
KH = 30 with Nutrafin liquid test kit
KH = 40 with API test strips
GH= 60 with Nutrafin liquid test kit
GH= 30-60 with API test strips
Shall I add 16oz baking soda and 2 pounds of Epsom? Or wait for another test tomorrow?
It’s entirely possible the leak could fix itself in time, but I would have to know more about the construction of the pond. Is it a liner? Most are these days. Is there sand beneath the liner? In a lot of cases a hole is dug, and little to no prep work. When the hole is filled with water, the weight forces the liner onto a sharp rock, and before you know it, there’s a tear.
I guess you could go on endlessly filling and buffering. I would definitely wait it out before draining the pond. A crack in the liner will be really hard to find. Have you ever let it go to see how low the water table gets before stopping?
H202 begins to degrade as soon as it comes into contact with live organics, so no. If you had been using it daily then possibly. I often recommend it, but your pond is so large, it would take several gallons to make any difference
Each pH test kit you listed varied in pH, but no matter; I’m not concerned with pH right now. Why? Because it’s not a parameter; it’s a theory. When fish keepers use it, they actually cause more damage then good. Stop worrying about pH, and focus on KH
Hi Venus, what are some things that could account for the inaccurately high pH readings from the liquid test? We haven’t used hydrogen peroxide but it’s quite possible my dad has. He has used many different substances in the pond in addition to antibiotics.
Ok, good so we have confirmed the leak. If we did nothing to plug the leak and performed daily water top-ups and buffered KH and GH long-term, would that be enough?
We are currently at 3 boxes of soda (16oz/box) and 3 boxes of Epsom (2 pounds/box). Please note that there have been multiple water top-ups and there was that evening after I put in the second box that I removed 20gallons of pond water and topped up extra water. I haven’t measured any pond parameters since I added the 3rd box of soda and epsom last night. Will find out tonight!
It’s good to see the similar readings for KH, which means we’re going in the right direction
It’s good to see salinity dropping in one respect, but in another, it indicates the pond has a leak, seeing as how salt doesn’t evaporate. If it were just evaporation causing the loss, the salinity would stay the same. We’ll keep an eye on the water loss, and discuss later, but it’s going to be hard on your parents to keep KH levels up when they’re adding so much water; very frustrating.
In most cases where KH is as low as 40, pH is close to 7. if not a little lower, so I don’t think oxygen is going to be an issue; meaning I think we’re going to find out the pumps in place are getting the job done
No reason to add more Prime until we see a substantial change in ammonia or nitrite
Are we at two or three boxes of soda now? Keep it up. We have a long ways to go, and a short time to get there. Let’s go with the low KH readings, and boost levels to 120 to 140 ppm
Hi Venus,
Just thought I would update you on water parameters. Before adding anything this evening, I tested the water parameters as follows:
Electric Pond salinity tester
Salinity: 0.08
Nutrafin Master Test Kit (Liquid; what I’ve always been using)
-Ammonia: 0.1
-Nitrite: 0.3
-Nitrate: 5-10
-KH: 30
-GH: 40
-pH: 7.8-8 (high pH tester), 7.6 (low pH tester; 7.6 is the maximum on low tester)
API 5 in 1 Test Strips (newly purchase)
-Nitrite: 0.5
-Nitrate: 20
-pH: 7
-KH: 40
-GH: 30
Pet Store Test (Test strips used by aquarium staff)
-Ammonia:0
-Nitrite: 0-0.5 (~0.3)
-Nitrate: 20
-KH: 60-80
-GH: 75
-pH: 7-7.2
-Chlorine:0
What do you think of the diffeing test results? How come pH is completely off for my home liquud test? I always thought liquid would be more accurate.
Ignoring the pH, I added Prime, 16oz baking soda and 2 pounds of epsom tonight. Will retest tomorrow evening before taking further action
It seems we’re having problems with the comments loading in their proper order after deactivating the load comments button, but I’ll try to keep watch over it, and make sure you’re seeing my post.
Yes, you got it with the Prime. And we wondered why we were forced to take math in school. lol
Raising the KH is going to kill the bad bugs in the water. Bad bugs can’t tolerate water high in alkalinity; rich in oxygen. That in itself is all the treatment you need. That being said, in order to hasten their healing, other treatments are recommended. Treatments that won’t disturb the already delicate cycle; hence the garlic remedy. If you want to add some mint tea; that would be great, as mint also destroys bad bugs; still, we should wait until the KH is where we want it before adding any remedies
You should receive the garlic in a day or two, and by then the water should be rich in carbonate mineral.
Yes to the Espom and the soda
If we don’t see a large boost in GH after adding the Epsom, it’s possible you have low calcium levels. If you are of the mindset, contact your parents water department. Ask what calcium, magnesium and carbonate mineral levels are. Hopefully, they can provide the info. I looked online, and can’t find any info on substances in your water.
It’s disappointing to see nitrites on the rise, but you’re armed with water treatment. The ammonia is stable with nitrites on the rise, meaning you’re a little more than halfway through the cycle. Nitrite should peak at 8. ppm, and then recede a short time after. Due to the fact you have nitrates, the cycle isn’t broken; a portion of the colony was lost, and now they’re rebuilding
The water loss is going to be very helpful with this. Adding fresh water will take the place of the usual water change, diluting the toxin levels
Double dose of Prime today by adding dividing each dose in half; diluting in a bucket of pond water. Pour all around slowly mixing with your broom. You got that by now, so I won’t repeat it. So this means two doses each split in half; four buckets total
As nitrite rises, the dosage will increase up to four doses daily. Once the levels begin to recede will back off to every other day, lowering the doses
Don’t worry about pH, just keep working on increasing the KH; it’s all important
By the way, did I recommend H202? If so, that would account for the high pH, but if not, let’s just not worry about pH right now. We can rest assured oxygen isn’t an issue anyway.
Hi Venus,
Should I add 16oz baking soda and 2pounds of Epsom again today?
I have been following the bottle directions of 5mL Prime for every 50gallons of fresh water added so far. If I double the dose, then I would be adding 10mL Prime for every 50gallons of fresh water added, yes? Just to confirm though, say I top up 1000gallons of water each day (about 2% of the pond total of 50,000 gallons, to be conservative), then the normal dose of Prime to add daily would be 100mL. By doubling the dose of Prime, you are asking me to add 200mL of Prime each day (divided into 4 buckets) to each 1000gallons of new water.
No, we haven’t used hydrogen peroxide so far. But do you recommend we do anything about the bacteria/fungus in the pond? Some fish have visible white patches on their bodies.
Something’s off with the pH or the KH test. Maybe you’re using a high pH test kit? It’s impossible to have KH at 40 and pH over 8. Take a sample of your tap and pond water to the pet shop for a free KH test; ask for specific readings. We need to know for sure that 40 is what you’re pond is reading. I have a feeling it’s right, and pH is off, because of the condition of the pond
Or…pick up another KH test kit so we can double check ourselves
We need to know for sure before we proceed
I added more tap water today to top off the pond. I tested KH and pH twice.
KH is currently 20
PH is currently 7.8-8
Sorry to hear you lost that fish, but it was pretty much eaten up. You don’t have to worry about the spread of infection now that the KH is up. It’s a little high, but you may have tested a pocket, and it’s not too high; so no worries there.
As long as the KH is comfortable, we don’t have to worry about pH, but we do know the pond is heavily oxygenated, and that’s pretty awesome. Stress is caused by low KH and pH, not by raising it
Also wanted you to know that the test kits we buy at the pet shop are pretty cheap compared to the what the pros use. Because of it, we don’t always get accurate results. Our KH kits test 20 ppm to 30 ppm lower than the actual readings, so you’re probably just where you need to be
Salinity looks fine too
Need to keep working on GH. This is important as well. Keep a close watch on the KH, because it’s going to drop; this is natural when buffering and adding freshwater. When it drops to 80 ppm, add a few ounces of soda. It’s hard to believe it, but by the time your parents come home, you’ll be a pro, and then you can teach them. It’s not really that hard now is it?
I think it’s important to wait at least 24 hrs in between or before adding more substances. Meaning; wait 24 hrs after buffering to test and buffer again. If you test in the morning, and find GH is still at 80; add 4 lbs of Epsom
Check with your parents and see if they know if the house is on a filtering system. I would be so. If this is the case, you may be able to have someone re-route the hose. You can also contact your city water department for KH and GH levels. Most of these people can test for you if they don’t know. This could determine if it would be worth the effort to re-route the hose from the filtering system, or, we may find out there’s no filtering system at all, and your water is low in mineral value
Pond water stats this morning:
Ammonia: 0.1
Nitrite: 0.3 (it’s increasing)!
Nitrate 5-10
pH: 8.4-8.6 (color in between)
KH: 40
GH: 60
Salinity 0.09
I know I messed up the baking soda, but given the high pH, I’m very worried adding more to raise KH will cause the alkalinity to be off the charts (tester cannot read past 8.6). What do you suggest?
Should I add more Epsom? How much?
Also, what can we do about the bacteria/fungus in the pond?
Thanks!
Do you know the depth of the pond?
Will try to find out pond dimensions!
Pond depth is 5 feet
I just added 2 pounds (900gm) of Epsom salt and 16oz (500gm) of baking soda. Also added Prime. Will test pond water tomorrow!
Hi Brenda,
Wow last night was a roller coaster. The diseased fish died so we took it out of the pond. It took the effort of my brother and I to fish it out with a big net. And of course now we’re worried about how long the fish was in the pond for and whether the bacteria or parts of its remains were eaten by other fish. We have observed finrot, some white patches and some injured, raised white scales on fish though.
I took the pond parameters last night and they were
PH 8.6
KH is 130
Ammonia 0.1
Nitrite 0.1-0.3
Nitrate 5-10
GH 80
Salinity 0.11
I was shocked about the KH, thinking the sudden high pH and KH would stress the fish. Out of panic I removed 20gallons of pond water and added new tap water.
I remeasured the pond parameters but due to the slow water mixing, I decided to wait to remeasure this morning
Epsom is pure magnesium, and won’t raise or lower salinity levels. Soda will raise the levels, but insignificantly. Once KH is in the comfort zone, the fish will have the precise amount of salt they need from the carbonate mineral.
The soda is going to raise pH, but only slightly, as the KH levels are still way too low. I would guess it’s the combination of raising KH and adding water to the pond. Freshwater is loaded with oxygen
Keep this in mind; this pond is a monster, and it’s going to take time for the substances we’re adding to mix up well with the water. The same is true with the salt that’s been added. There may be areas of the pond that have more salt than others. From the photo of the overall pond, I was a little concerned that the water wasn’t agitated enough, but with your KH being so low, and your pH being over 7. I thought it wouldn’t be an issue. Still think it’s going to be fine
It’s critical to raise GH and KH. Let’s keep adding Espom until levels are at the bottom or middle of comfort zone; 200 to 400 ppm
Let’s stop adding soda when levels reach 80 to 100 ppm, and once the salt isn’t as issue, we’ll raise to 100 to 120 ppm. This way we won’t be pushing salt levels too much. Salt or no salt in the water, the KH levels are critical
KH gives water the ability to support oxygen. It may have a little salt, but salt is also vital to animal life. Keep up the good work
If you’re of the mindset. Pick up a dozen boxes of organic peppermint or spearmint tea, and let us know when and if you do. I was thinking a mint treatment may be in order
Glad they liked the peas. Peas are really nutritious and high in roughage
Did we really go from .09 to .01 in salinity? That’s amazing, and a big relief
The ammonia and nitrite reading; is it .1 or 1. just to be sure, as .1 is insignificant, but still enough to treat with a a half dose. I would also like to get you into the habit of treating your freshwater. Water treatment is supposed to be premixed in freshwater before adding, but with a pond of this size it’s difficult to do, and because you’re topping off so frequently, I think it would suffice to treat the pond, and then run the hose
Just so you know; most large pond keepers would run water into a 55 gallon drum, add water treatment, and then siphon the water into the pond with a hose. Some rig the drum with an opening for a hose at the bottom, and some don’t every bother to treat the water at all with no ill effects. That’s the beauty of a large pond. It’s rare that water changes are performed
You got the Prime water treatment; right? How often are you topping off? Add a single dose every time you top off until ammonia and nitrite recede
To add water treatment, break up the amount you’re going to add to the pond into three parts. Add one part at a time to a two or three gallons of pond water. Walk around the pond slowly adding the treatment, mixing with a broom
Add another two pound bag of Epsom and two 16 oz boxes of soda or half a four pound box; might as well. It looks like we’re going to need it. It’s going to take some doing
Good news is; the ammonia and nitrite is not rising; it’s on it’s way down. If you could possibly find out if your city is using chloramines or not, this well help us determine if we’ll need to continue using water treatment when water is added to the pond. Chlorine is a liquid gas, and soon evaporates in moving water, but chloramines has ammonia in it. I’m thinking there’s a very good chance you don’t have chloramines. Most folks get a .25 up to .1 reading in their freshwater for ammonia. Chloramines is combined ammonia (combined with chlorine)
We’ll wait another day after adding the soda and Epsom, giving plenty of time for an accurate result. Better to move slowly so as not to go over
Hi Venus,
The salinity level increased from 0.09 to 0.1 after I added the 2 pound of Epsom salt. It will probably increase again after I add another 2 pounds today.
Ammonia and Nitrite are definitely 0.1 (lowest-second lowest color on the chart), I think it was remained the same, no change.
I am topping water daily with the garden hose for about 2 hours each day. That only raises the pond water level by about 2 inches overall.
I will add another 2pounds of Epsom tonight. I’m a bit concerned about the baking soda though, because the pH moved from 7.4 to 8 in one day. Can I add 8oz for now?
I will start adding Prime tonight too – enough prime to treat just the water being topped off and divided into thirds mixed with pond water.
Hi Venus,
I fed the fish peas today (full and unmushed) and they all seemed to like them. I think the size/look of the food matters as the peas kind of resemble their pellets.
I also tested the pond water parameters:
Ammonia: 0.1
Nitrite: 0.1
Nitrate: 5-10
pH: 8
KH: 20
GH: 80
Salinity: 0.1
Should we add Prime or more Epsom salt/baking soda? How much?
I’ve added 2pounds of Epsom and 16oz of baking soda so far
Oh, okay. I was all excited to see zero ammonia and nitrites, but we may be surprised anyway, and it’s good to know these toxins aren’t present in your tap. Some aren’t as fortunate.
Let’s wait to see ammonia and nitrite readings until we determine Prime usage
Open it up, and pull as much gunk away as possible. If they’re any filter pads or sponges, rinse them clean in a bucket of pond water. Toss the water of course. If the water is moving from the hoses, it’s doing it’s job; don’t bother if this is the case
Hi Venus,
What do you mean by water moving from hoses??
Hi Venus,
I just wanted to clarify that the water parameters I posted were those of the fresh water that came out of the tap, not water from the pond. I haven’t tested the pond water since I added the Epsom and baking soda but will do so tonight!
Would the amount of Prime I add depend on the readings?
Also, my parents gave me no directions on how to clean the filtration system while they are away. Is there a correct way to clean the filter/collected pond debris and how often?
I’m not sure how my post came to be above yours unless we posted at the same time. It was in response to your previous post for those that come along
The normal saline level in freshwater is .01 or .02, and although 09 doesn’t sound too bad for your pond, it was probably much higher, but lowered due to all the topping off which has been beneficial in the long run. We won’t worry about these levels as in a short time they’ll be normal, but to remind you; let’s never salt the pond again; use only for a bath or a quick dip in case of infection or as a preventative with a new fish
Toxin levels have lowered instead of risen, so that’s great news as well. The spike is over; the pond is fully cycled. You may not realize it, but unless you’re on a well, your freshwater has chlorine in it, and possibly chloramines. These disinfectants are used by the city to keep water safe, but they’re not so safe for the fish. Adding water straight from the hose. I have no doubt the previous spike was caused by the medicinal antibiotics your parents were using, but right now, you cycle is delicate, and the disinfectants may cause another spike
I’m delighted to hear the fish like the spinach. My fish are horrified of it. lol The potassium will help to reduce the levels of salt in the fish’s blood, and could keep them from experience organ failure in the future. Feed as much as you like, daily if you can
I would use the Prime to eliminate chlorine, and in the future, keep it on hand in case of another spike occurs. Spikes are caused by over-cleaning the pumps, exchanging too much water and feeding inconsistently. If you know the causes, it’s easy to avoid
Add a single dose of Prime to start with, and then 1/2 dose every time you top of the water. Once the weather cools, the topping off should come to an end unless the lowering water table is caused by a leak, which could very well be the case. I expected saline levels to much higher, which would be the case if water was evaporating. If we are dealing with a leak, it may fix itself over time. After all, a rancher digs a hole, fills it with water, and a pond is born. In some cases, natural stone formation beneath pond keeps the earth from impacting
I’m looking forward to today’s test results
From the looks of your pH, we won’t have to worry about oxygen levels once the KH is raised, so your set up, the action being created is just right
Yes, proceed with the recommended treatments because nothing is as important as excellent water. Your fish have been in water low in oxygen and mineral value, and this has deteriorated their health. The break in the cycle made a contribution as well, but the fish only have a chance at recovery if the water is healthy.
The comfort zone for KH is 120 to 140. This parameters gives water the ability to support oxygen. It’s a part of pH value, but KH alone is responsible for alkalinity. Once KH is raised, we’ll examine pH. Hopefully it will be at the high end of the comfort zone; 8.2 to 8.4 ppm. If so, we’ll know the water movement is fine. If it’s still low, we might discuss adding another pump; hopefully not.
pH is a combined reading of KH and O2
Once we get the water right, the garlic will boost the fish’s immune system, and with some luck, the fish will recover
Hi Venus,
I tested the pond water salinity level to be 0.09ppm. I added 2pounds of Epsom salt and 16oz of baking soda tonight. Also fed the fish a mixture of presoaked Hikari pellets and blanched spinach which they liked. The only issue was that the spinach kept getting caught in the pond net so I had difficulty distributing it into the pond. The fish jumped at the net to eat the spinach though! Will test pond parameters tomorrow.
I also tested the parameters of the tap water. They were:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 7.2-7.4
KH: 10
GH: <20
Salinity: 0
Prime will be arriving tomorrow. How much should I add??
Cheers!
-M
In regards to that one sick, lethargic fish that swims slowly at the bottom of the pond and has sores on one side, raised scales and poor appetite, do you recommend I apply anything to it topically (e.g. epsom salt) or feed it anything specifically? Or would we proceed with the baking soda and epsom salt for the whole pond first?
Get Prime or Amquel plus. I think it’s sold in your part of the world
Ok! Ordered Prime online. It will arrive in a few days
If you get a spike, you’ll post here, and I’ll help you
I wouldn’t add nutrafin cycle. This is going to confuse the existing cycle. Just let it take it’s course
Yes, a few granules of Epsom will be fine
Yes, the instructions look good for blanching spinach
Dilute water treatment in a bucket of pond water; pour all around slowly mixing with a broom or something
I know it’s alot, but soon it will be second nature
Glad you’re springing for the salt test. I’ll start researching what test results should be for freshwater; never tested salt before
Thank you! Is there a particular kind of water treatment you recommend? How is this one: http://www.petsmart.ca/fish/food-and-care/water-care-and-conditioning/api-stress-coat-aquarium-water-conditioner-17572.html?src=lastvisited (API Stress Coat+ Aquarium Conditioner)
Great. I’m going to test the salt level and buy water treatment tonight.
I will be buying Nutrafin Cycle. For a pond that somewhat has a cycle going, what ratio of treatment to pond water should I use for the next 3 days?
Should I walk along the pond and pour all of the water treatment directly into the water?
The ammonia/nitrite readings seem like none-low now, but I’m concerned in case the cycle spikes after. Would I have to do emergency water changes to the pond if there is a spike?
Also going to add epsom salt and baking soda. If the epsom salt does not melt in buckets of pond water, can the solid salt chunks be left suspended in the pond water buckets and poured directly into the pond?
Just to confirm, I will be aiming for GH 200-400ppm and KH 70-120ppm
I have never blanched spinach, I’m assuming I should follow this: http://www.wikihow.com/Blanch-Spinach
and then cut the spinach leaves into tiny chunks? Can the spinach stems be used too? Sorry I’m a bit concerned because it’s never occurred to me to feed the fish anything else in case they choke haha
Thanks!
Thanks for joining us here M
For those of you that happen on to this post, we’ve been having discussion via email
Thanks so much for posting all of the parameters. Each one tells a story. Even though ammonia and nitrite is low, any amount is too high. The story here, antibiotics have destroyed a portion of the beneficial bacteria colony. These are the friendly bugs that create the nitrogen cycle. Without the cycle, there would be no life in our natural or man made bodies of water
Here’s how it works; your fish make waste, and from waste, ammonia forms. Ammonia is a deadly toxin, but it’s also the food source for beneficial bacteria. When it’s present, the micro organisms form to feed on the toxin, converting it into nitrites. When nitrites are present, another type of friendly bug forms to feed on it, converting it into nitrates, the third and final toxin to form in the cycle
When the cycle is complete, only nitrates are present
The antibiotics your parents added to the pond killed the bad life form in the water, but it also killed the good. In a short time the bad bugs build a resistance to the meds, coming back twice-fold. Unfortunately, bad bugs can reproduce in 12 to 20 minutes, while good bugs take 12 to 20 hours
It happens all too often, the water quality is poor, and the fish get sick, so the fish keeper turns to antibiotics
Bad bugs also build an immunity to salt. While beneficial bacteria can’t build immunity to much of anything; they’re fragile, unlike the bad. At 50,000 gallons, performing water changes to reduce any medications or salts in the water is impractical to say the least, so we’re going to have to ride it out. Topping off the pond due to water loss isn’t going to be a lot of help unless the pond has a leak. If evaporation is the cause of the water loss, salt levels could be increasing, but, this could be a good way to find out if you have a leak or not. They make salinity test kits. You could test the water now, and test again in a few weeks to see if the levels are increasing or decreasing. If the latter is the case, you know you have a leak
If we find out saline levels are building up; meaning no leak, the topping off will eventually bring levels down. It would be nice to know these readings. You might be able to get a free reading from a local pet shop
The antibiotics have probably lost their potency, and are degrading as we speak. Let’s never use salt or meds on this pond again
If you’ve obtained water treatment that converts ammonia and nitrite, that would be awesome; treat the entire pond if you have enough, and treat daily for three days, and after this time test for ammonia and nitrite again. Post your results here. Hopefully, the toxins are on their way down, and not up.
Test tap to make sure your freshwater source is free of these toxins, and not the source
Okay, we’ve addressed water loss, spike in the cycle, salts and meds; now it’s time to address your low KH and GH. GH is important for good health. The comfort zone is 200 to 400 pppm. KH is another story; it’s critical to life, and this is where your problem started. Bad bugs thrive in water low in oxygen, and KH gives water the ability to support oxygen. The comfort zone is said to be 70 ppm to 120 ppm, but 70 is the neutral zone; in between alkalinity and acidity; too close for comfort
Raise GH with pure Epsom salts; add a two or 3lb bag to the pond, but dissolve it in pond water first; pour in slowly, walking around the pond, mixing it in with a tool of some kind; I use a clean broom. Also good for pulling debris from the water
Raise KH with bicarbonate of (baking) soda (get the relation? KH is carbonate mineral) I place soda in a shaker (spice) bottle. Start by adding one of those smaller 16 oz boxes. Mix it up with a broom as you go around the pond. Wait for a few hours; test KH. You may need another box; maybe two or more boxes. It’s hard to say, because every body of water is different
Pick up some fresh spinach and blanch it; feed it to the fish; start with a just a few pieces to see if they like it. Spinach is rich in potassium, and will help eliminate salt from the fish’s bodies. Freshwater fish can’t tolerate saline waters for more than a few days as a tonic or treatment
Another thing you can do is treat the fish to a dandelion remedy to cleanse the blood. We’ll discuss later, after we have this water in shape. Once toxins are converted, KH and GH raised, things are going to improve. Now when that garlic remedy arrives, your fish will reap the benefits
Speaking of; your going to add the garlic remedy by adding it to a bucket of pond water; walk around the pond slowly pouring in the remedy; mixing with a broom as you do so.
Tell your parents to feed less food more often, and to feed very consistently. Hope the fish like the spinach
This is a lot to take in, but feel free to ask questions as you move along, and please keep us informed
Hi Venus, when adding the 16oz baking soda, should I be mindful of the pH in addition to the KH?
How high is too high for pH? It is currently 7.2-7.4